Just a reason to buy both F-4's

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:52 pm

One thing I've noted that when both 21st and Admiral release the same product. They tend to compliment each other. I look at both versions of the F-86 I have. I don't look at them as toys so much as two different aircraft rolling off the assembly line and going through different experiences. It brings up memories of my crew and I driving down the flight line heading to our KC-135A Tanker. You could look at the birds and see just how unique each one was considering that they all looked and were painted the same.

Each aircraft had its dents and bumps panels were painted in different shades or faded due to time or repair. Some were filthy others pristine. One aircraft even had the USAF logo applied wrong so it spelled out USFA (to us that meant United States Freaking Airplane).

So when I set my two aircraft down or any of the multiples I've gotten like the Corsair or Mustang from different companies. I don't feel they are the same plane but different ones visiting a distant airfield or transients. I think that is a good way to view it. So I'll get both and display them together. So those who see them will not think of each as a separate Icon but as a symbol of strength, history and a lineage.

Just my 2 cents.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:30 pm

USFA? And they didn't correct it??

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:45 pm

aferguson wrote:USFA? And they didn't correct it??

I don't know how long the aircraft had that applied to it. Its possible it went in for a modification and was repainted then. When an aircraft is released to the Air Force from in this case Boeing who did our modifications and reskins all the aircraft crew is required to do is make sure all equipment is aboard and everything works. The markings are not visible on the ground because its on the upper wing. The pilots can't see them because they are too far back and angled to be legible at first glance. Myself being a boom operator only checks the cabin doors and interior. I'm not required to note anything outside the windows. So I think it just slipped through the cracks. The aircrew should have noted it but in the end it was Boeing's fault.

I do know that it wasn't going to be corrected until it went in depot maintenance or upgrade to the R model or wing reskinned at which point they were going to repaint the whole aircraft skyblue instead of the old Strategic Air Command Silver that had been over it most of its service life. Pulling a perfectly good aircraft out of service just for a mismark would have been costly at a time when there was a shortage of tankers.

In the long run this tanker was never used for high visibility missions like airshows or the like whenever possible.

Every tanker had its quirks it seemed, we even had one that was haunted supposedly.

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:58 pm

I am in the buy them both camp. I am of the opinion I need to support both to see bigger and better things come from either one.

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:07 pm

I'm with you Quixote511. If we keep buying big planes, they will make more big planes. We know a place in Ohio that has lots of good ideas for future projects.

Mark

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:09 pm

KAMIKAZE wrote:I'm with you Quixote511. If we keep buying big planes, they will make more big planes. We know a place in Ohio that has lots of good ideas for future projects.

Mark

I've been there too and your right !

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:12 pm

But what if at decided not to make the F-4 due to 21st making one. This is one big bird that is not cheap to make. just look at the cost it will be just to tool the thing.

I don’t know I think 21st has a real good chance at annoying some of its customers, I know I am a little annoyed.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:15 pm

VMF115 wrote:But what if at decided not to make the F-4 due to 21st making one. This is one big bird that is not cheap to make. just look at the cost it will be just to tool the thing.

I don’t know I think 21st has a real good chance at annoying some of its customers, I know I am a little annoyed.

I think that would be a tragic loss to them and to the community as I said in another thread we are then letting one manufacturer dictate the market which is unhealthy overall.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:31 pm

21st will always attract customers because they have a lot of aircraft, armor, & figures to choose from regardless of how annoyed some of thier fan base is. I will continue to buy from them, I just wish that they would of put someting else out in all reallity.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:32 pm

Jericoeagle1 wrote:
VMF115 wrote:But what if at decided not to make the F-4 due to 21st making one. This is one big bird that is not cheap to make. just look at the cost it will be just to tool the thing.

I don’t know I think 21st has a real good chance at annoying some of its customers, I know I am a little annoyed.
I think that would be a tragic loss to them and to the community as I said in another thread we are then letting one manufacturer dictate the market which is unhealthy overall.

All I have to say is this, If AT does not make an F-4 due to 21st making one, I will be upset, not at admiral toys but at 21st.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:48 pm

What is the over/under on the idea that if AT does not make the F-4 at all, that we will ever see one from 21st?

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:49 pm

VMF115 wrote:
Jericoeagle1 wrote: I think that would be a tragic loss to them and to the community as I said in another thread we are then letting one manufacturer dictate the market which is unhealthy overall.
All I have to say is this, If AT does not make an F-4 due to 21st making one, I will be upset.

Admiral has a sale from me because I believe in loyalty. Admiral has a better reputation with customer service. Over the past 2 years I've sent emails to 21st over problems and have never once had a reply. I remember things like that. I don't believe 21st has a 1/18th prototype yet and I think that they are probably lagging 4 to 6 months behind Admiral. If Admiral can get its F-4 out on time or early then having 2 versions won't matter for Admiral will get the beneifit of being first. If a product is something you really want you will buy it for a lot more then you normally would. I'm an Ebay buyer and know that for a fact.

I'm not beating up on 21st or saying don't buy thier product. I intend to get thier F-4 as well because I think that having two different overall models makes them in a collection more "unique" instead of just having one companies repaints. I feel that all of our manufacturers need support with an industry which in my opinion is very small yet.

Wow! I'm really getting overzealous about this stuff, I need to take a stress tab and chill for awhile.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:05 pm

Jericoeagle1 I agree with your statement.

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:10 pm

I think AT just has too much invested to just scrap it because one of the big kids is doing it too. It will come.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:12 pm

tkjaer21 wrote:What is the over/under on the idea that if AT does not make the F-4 at all, that we will ever see one from 21st?

I think it’s a strong possibility that if AT decides to not make the F-4, then what incentive would 21st have on putting one out by Christmas 07, as far as we know they could take 3 more years to get an F-4 to us.

I think that this duplication process is a nothing more then a statement from 21st saying we where here first and we will be here long after AT has been drummed out of business…. I don’t like it one bit. It’s nothing more then a bully tactic.

I hope AT makes the best F-4 out their,….No… I know AT will make the best F-4 out there.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:16 pm

STARMAN 352ND wrote:I believe that Jason has already stated on another thread it was a sad day to learn of 21st Phantoms that is coming out.
They are still making the F4 Phantom at Admrial Toys he says.
JP

where is that thread?

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:23 pm

Although I'm still a little annoyed with the 21c announcement, the AT and 21c F-4s could certainly co-exist so long as each company makes a different variant. That is the beauty with both the F-86s one is an F and the other an E, so they're technically different models and go together. At could also stick to Air Force paintschemes and 21c to Naval ones, but I don't think there will be that type of coordination, sadly enough...

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:06 pm

STARMAN 352ND wrote:
VMF115 wrote: where is that thread?
VMF-115,
It's in PhantomII for 89.99 on page7
JP

Thanks I found it already.

I am sorry about my ranting

I guess I don’t mind that they will be making the same variants….Just don’t make the same paint schemes for crying out loud.

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:11 pm

I'll let this thread stay open... but no bashing of either company. Business practices must stay of out this discussion and stay on the original topic. Thank you.

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:16 pm

Can we open a new thread for discussing business practices?

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:16 pm

Nope. Gotta keep the peace, that includes the companies too because all three companies do monitor the boards.

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:20 pm

I agree with keeping peace, but, ah, we will not change anything anyway, forget it.

I just dont think 21stCT should be killing off Admiral, since they said Admiral doesnt interfere with their sales. (not the only reason)

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:26 pm

Moth wrote:I agree with keeping peace, but, ah, we will not change anything anyway, forget it.

I just dont think 21stCT should be killing off Admiral, since they said Admiral doesnt interfere with their sales. (not the only reason)

They can't kill off Admiral. Put it this way, 21st is more of a broader company now, there stuff is sold in walmart, more than just groundpounders like us, they have kids and stuff that sometimes buy their products.

Admiral's main audience comprises of us groundpounders.

There is 2 focuses now emerging, and I am sure that AT and 21st can coexist as they both market to 2 different markets.

1 focuses on us and everyone else and has to compromise. 1 focuses mainly on us and will do what it takes to keep us happy.

We can pick and choose which to buy. Question is, will there just be 1 phantom from each at launch or multiple phantoms?