I think 21stCT made the jump to more detail, with the Mig-15 and Sabre. They now have opening/removable gun bays, a first, so I dont see why 21stCT will not do even more detailVMF115 wrote:I had some time to think about it and I think the light and sound idea is a bad one, focus on better detail, do what 21st will not do.Moth wrote:I do not like eithier ideas,
I see no reason for lights, it is a model, not a toy, and sound on a turbine aircraft seems pointless to me too.
I would really rather see more detail, like opening engine covers, or even a removable engine.
Admiral Toys Information Q&A (Jason)
[img39]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v501/QueenofSky/BirdFlu.gif[/img39] [img39]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Acherontia_lachesis.jpg/200px-Acherontia_lachesis.jpg[/img39]
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JohnLumley
- Officer - 2nd Lieutenant

- Posts: 363
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:06 am
- Location: Boynton Beach, Florida
- Contact:
Jason:
No sound card.
No lights.
Nothing fancy is needed.
It will sell because its a big mean looking 1:18 F-4
Go big and keep it simple!
Formula = Big plane with detailed cockpit, crisp paint lines and lots of ordinance to hang underneath it.
bbi did this with the Hornet & Falcon. Nothing too fancy about these birds yet they continue to sell well even 2 1/2 years later.
The phantom will be a winner. Just get it to the market first. I believe you will sell more that way.
JL
No sound card.
No lights.
Nothing fancy is needed.
It will sell because its a big mean looking 1:18 F-4
Go big and keep it simple!
Formula = Big plane with detailed cockpit, crisp paint lines and lots of ordinance to hang underneath it.
bbi did this with the Hornet & Falcon. Nothing too fancy about these birds yet they continue to sell well even 2 1/2 years later.
The phantom will be a winner. Just get it to the market first. I believe you will sell more that way.
JL
One hundred and fifty three - 1:18 scale aircraft on the ceiling looks :shock: damn good!
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VMF115
- Officer - Brigadier General

- Posts: 7112
- Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Clear Lake, South Dakota
All the flight controls must work, with the four f-18's and the one f-16 I find it frustrating that they did not make the movable flight controls.JohnLumley wrote:Jason:
No sound card.
No lights.
Nothing fancy is needed.
It will sell because its a big mean looking 1:18 F-4
Go big and keep it simple!
Formula = Big plane with detailed cockpit, crisp paint lines and lots of ordinance to hang underneath it.
bbi did this with the Hornet & Falcon. Nothing too fancy about these birds yet they continue to sell well even 2 1/2 years later.
The phantom will be a winner. Just get it to the market first. I believe you will sell more that way.
JL
I agree with lots of ordinance, detailed radar, with avionics access panels and a highly detailed cockpit, if you r looking for a new market go after the aviation buff collector. But at the same time keep it affordable.
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Let me hear your guns!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
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Shin Densetsu
- Officer - 1st Lieutenant

- Posts: 504
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:52 pm
- Location: Sky
Jason
I'd rather see the money that would be used for the electronics used on making all the control surfaces moveable, making the plastic as durable as can be, making sure there are detents on the surfaces to make sure flaps and slats lock into place and removeable engines, which is something a lot of people want, or exposed engine detail, which was it? Ground crew with more swappable weapons and dolleys couldn't hurt either.
3 versions you can make multiple repaints of could be:Marine F-4J, USAF F-4C, Usn F-4B
I'd rather see the money that would be used for the electronics used on making all the control surfaces moveable, making the plastic as durable as can be, making sure there are detents on the surfaces to make sure flaps and slats lock into place and removeable engines, which is something a lot of people want, or exposed engine detail, which was it? Ground crew with more swappable weapons and dolleys couldn't hurt either.
3 versions you can make multiple repaints of could be:Marine F-4J, USAF F-4C, Usn F-4B
Shin's wishlist for 1/18 and 1/32 with retractable landing gear and more:
F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle
F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle
Jason
I wouldn’t worry too much about the bells and whistles. The lights could be a cool feature if the quality control on them was tight but a sound card is not something that would be a selling point for me. As for detailed engines, I don’t think most people realize that a GE-J79 in 1:18 would be 11.6 inches long and 2.1 inches in diameter and would also have more surface detail than any aircraft or vehicle produced to date. There’s just no way that could be done cheaply AND accurately. Just concentrate on getting the details right. The average person is either going to hang an F-4 from the ceiling or have it gear down on their desk. So one place it would make sense to put the extra effort into would be the landing gear. To me, opening panels in 1:18 are an eyesore. The only thing that really detracts from the looks of the AT 262 is the panels covering the gun bay. I also believe that extra ordinance is a must. While a full set of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons in the box would be fantastic, I would at least like to see a variation in each weapons load of the future repaints.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the bells and whistles. The lights could be a cool feature if the quality control on them was tight but a sound card is not something that would be a selling point for me. As for detailed engines, I don’t think most people realize that a GE-J79 in 1:18 would be 11.6 inches long and 2.1 inches in diameter and would also have more surface detail than any aircraft or vehicle produced to date. There’s just no way that could be done cheaply AND accurately. Just concentrate on getting the details right. The average person is either going to hang an F-4 from the ceiling or have it gear down on their desk. So one place it would make sense to put the extra effort into would be the landing gear. To me, opening panels in 1:18 are an eyesore. The only thing that really detracts from the looks of the AT 262 is the panels covering the gun bay. I also believe that extra ordinance is a must. While a full set of air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons in the box would be fantastic, I would at least like to see a variation in each weapons load of the future repaints.
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STUKA
- Officer - Brigadier General

- Posts: 2800
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:33 am
- Location: Ft Campbell
wow - and yes no sound cards - I think there is a spray on the market to keep those things away from the house - as far as the F4 II
the company that puts her on the market first with a competitive price will win the BGOOIINNGGFFU game.
don't keep the price high with bells and whistles
the company that puts her on the market first with a competitive price will win the BGOOIINNGGFFU game.
don't keep the price high with bells and whistles
Ich liebe den Geruch von Sturzkampfflugzeug morgens.
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VMF115
- Officer - Brigadier General

- Posts: 7112
- Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Clear Lake, South Dakota
I disagree I think the company that makes the best F-4 II that is priced reasonably will be successful. some where between 120-190STUKA wrote: as far as the F4 II
the company that puts her on the market first with a competitive price will win the BGOOIINNGGFFU game.
don't keep the price high with bells and whistles
I also believe that you will have to offer a different level of detail then what other guy is doing. I also know that if you where to sell the F-4II to military AAFES stores or some how could market it to the Current Airforce or retried airforce personal you would sell a lot of them.
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Let me hear your guns!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
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Jericoeagle1
- Officer - Major

- Posts: 978
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Yelm, Washington
Overall I guess the sentiment is the same. Keep the aircraft (or armor) as accurate as possible with as much detail as practical and economical. We know there are companies that make 1/18 aircraft with every detail possible for mucho bucks but the average guy can't afford them. If I drop an ME-109 and break it. I know I can get another cheaply right away. If I break the super detailed F-4 I know I can't come up with the thousand plus dollars to fix or replace it.
If I were Admiral (and I thank God I'm not right now) I would produce my F-4 as is on schedule. I believe that when you announced your product you believed it to be ready. I think being first is the key here bring out your product and make the other guy catch up. I'm not really all that sure 21st can deliver what it is promising. If it is selling at that price, then I am sure it will be a money losing proposition in the hope of getting more profitable sales later on other products (kind of like what Walmart does to its competitors). It seems like poker to me except, you can't keep bluffing for long before you start to go broke.
If I were Admiral (and I thank God I'm not right now) I would produce my F-4 as is on schedule. I believe that when you announced your product you believed it to be ready. I think being first is the key here bring out your product and make the other guy catch up. I'm not really all that sure 21st can deliver what it is promising. If it is selling at that price, then I am sure it will be a money losing proposition in the hope of getting more profitable sales later on other products (kind of like what Walmart does to its competitors). It seems like poker to me except, you can't keep bluffing for long before you start to go broke.
A little song, A little dance, A little seltzer down your pants!~~~Chuckles the Clown.
Shin Densetsu suggestion of incorporation of a detents on all the movable flying surfaces such as flaps, ailerons, rudders, elevators and dive breaks, is an excellent proposal and would be a real winner for me, as droop and asymmetric positioning particularly where flaps are concerned is a major annoyance to me. I have been told that the speed breaks on some of the MiGs tend to pop open, whereas if a simple two position detent had been employed this would prevent this from happening. Also on anything but the latest fighters I would also like to see the elevators with detents and linked by a common shaft, so that when moved they move together, however if not possible then simple detention should be the standard.Shin Densetsu wrote: making sure there are detents on the surfaces to make sure flaps and slats lock into place
Timbo in general echoes my views regarding panels. I have said it before that the problem with opening panels is that it is very hard to stop them looking like they can be opened due to the need for over scaling of the hinges a necessity for durability along with the addition of some opening aid like a dimple or a tab. There is also the issue of how to stop these panels from opening especially if when they are on the underside of the model. However if opening panel details can be made so they do not look as if they can be opened then I’m all for it.Timbo wrote:To me, opening panels in 1:18 are an eyesore.
Now as far as lights and or sounds go, well this would not be a selling point for me personally, but this may have some appeal to the general public and thus increase sales in that direction and that could only be a good thing.
Let me join the chorus and call for extra ordinance for all, lack of user defined ordinance is the biggest let down on the BBI jets.
Lastly I’ll put my call in again for customisable markings “Stop the clones I say!”
SPUD
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Charlemagne
- Sergeant

- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:22 am
- Location: Piney Flats, TN
Jason,
Thanks for the reply, I too am concerned about the "one upsmanship" that seems to be going on. The bells and whistles sound nice but I wouldn't do them for a few reasons. One, it drives up the cost. Two, if things break or don't work right then you have unhappy customers complaining. Three, I agree that these are fine scale models and not toys so I think the line between model/toy becomes blurred and might ruin the market. My opinion is that all three companies need to focus on a slow but steady cycle of new aircraft with the best details that can be had for a reasonable pricepoint. Instead of looking around at the competition, look at your last product and see how you can make the next aircraft even better. In other words compete against yourself and move at your own pace and don't worry about the other guys. I'm afraid that too much too fast might hurt this hobby in the long run.
Dan
Thanks for the reply, I too am concerned about the "one upsmanship" that seems to be going on. The bells and whistles sound nice but I wouldn't do them for a few reasons. One, it drives up the cost. Two, if things break or don't work right then you have unhappy customers complaining. Three, I agree that these are fine scale models and not toys so I think the line between model/toy becomes blurred and might ruin the market. My opinion is that all three companies need to focus on a slow but steady cycle of new aircraft with the best details that can be had for a reasonable pricepoint. Instead of looking around at the competition, look at your last product and see how you can make the next aircraft even better. In other words compete against yourself and move at your own pace and don't worry about the other guys. I'm afraid that too much too fast might hurt this hobby in the long run.
Dan
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STUKA
- Officer - Brigadier General

- Posts: 2800
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:33 am
- Location: Ft Campbell
yes - though it has been very cool to see so many new products at once -
man it has become overwhelming.
there is no way I will be able to get everyone of these planes.
I'm still trying to figure out if I want to get a zero or 262...do i buy it ? or wait? wait? buy it?
dont get me wrong I love the selection.
As for the F-4II - wow I hope AT makes the right move. I still say get her out first - those phantom spooks and vets will probably only buy one - or wait for the one they like.
market market market
man it has become overwhelming.
there is no way I will be able to get everyone of these planes.
I'm still trying to figure out if I want to get a zero or 262...do i buy it ? or wait? wait? buy it?
dont get me wrong I love the selection.
As for the F-4II - wow I hope AT makes the right move. I still say get her out first - those phantom spooks and vets will probably only buy one - or wait for the one they like.
market market market
Ich liebe den Geruch von Sturzkampfflugzeug morgens.
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Jason of Admiral Toys
- Officer - 2nd Lieutenant

- Posts: 336
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 10:26 pm
- Location: Houston
- Contact:
This is why I love this board. It is a great sounding board.
The sound card, we never liked the idea. It wasn’t going to happen anyways. But it is nice to see that we made the right decision.
Lights, I think you will be impressed with them “if” they happen. They look just like the 1:1.
Detail, our aircraft will not be outdone in the future; because, our competition will not have several months to compare. No one will hear or see our new releases until they are done with production.
The F-4 is in modification mode to take every possible advantage of this aircraft’s details. Even so, we are not one bit worried that we will not make it first to the market with this aircraft.
Regards,
Jason
The sound card, we never liked the idea. It wasn’t going to happen anyways. But it is nice to see that we made the right decision.
Lights, I think you will be impressed with them “if” they happen. They look just like the 1:1.
Detail, our aircraft will not be outdone in the future; because, our competition will not have several months to compare. No one will hear or see our new releases until they are done with production.
The F-4 is in modification mode to take every possible advantage of this aircraft’s details. Even so, we are not one bit worried that we will not make it first to the market with this aircraft.
Regards,
Jason
G'day Jason
You must keep Aussie hours there, because I'm usually the first one to see your news breaks.
Thanks again for giving us the good oil on the lights and sound situation, for me loosing the sounds aint such a big problem as my arms would have got pretty tired flying the F-4 around the room
Good to hear also that the AT F-4 schedule is still on track, I hope the A-1 is also still equally on track as I may have mentioned a gazillion times by now that I'm really excited by the Spad.
Thanks again
You must keep Aussie hours there, because I'm usually the first one to see your news breaks.
Thanks again for giving us the good oil on the lights and sound situation, for me loosing the sounds aint such a big problem as my arms would have got pretty tired flying the F-4 around the room
Good to hear also that the AT F-4 schedule is still on track, I hope the A-1 is also still equally on track as I may have mentioned a gazillion times by now that I'm really excited by the Spad.
Thanks again
SPUD
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VMF115
- Officer - Brigadier General

- Posts: 7112
- Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Clear Lake, South Dakota
Jason I am also glade that the F-4 is on track, and even though I like to be kept informed about the new releases, I don’t mind if I have to wait to see the final product righ tbefore it leaves the port.
I think the lights might look cool,
I think the lights might look cool,
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Let me hear your guns!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
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Quixote511
- Officer - Colonel

- Posts: 1383
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:27 am
- Location: 1, USA, Ohio, in between Dayton and Cincy
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Plane Nuts
- Officer - 2nd Lieutenant

- Posts: 319
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:24 am
- Location: Bay Area, CA
Jason,
I know I am not really one to be providing you with strategy, but I think you are on the right path.
You guys have to make the best model possible, for the price you believe is reasonable. I don't really play this game looking for a plane that is more detailed than another on the market. I am much more inclined to want planes that are different. I weigh each purchase equally. Is there something with this plane that is compelling me to buy it? I won't buy a BBI P-51, for instance, because its tires are more accurately colored than a 21st P-51. I will buy it if the paint scheme interests me. Likewise, I wouldn't buy 21st's new Big Beautiful Doll because I already have the first one, and it is of no interest to me that the new one is of a different airplane! Let's face it, in the 1:18 scale, there is no way possible to make a perfectly detailed copy of an original, and I think spending two days looking and comparing every little detail to a grainy sixty year old photo is not my idea of enjoyment. Now I certainly know that others do like to do that, but my practical side says that close enough is good enough. I like the idea of being able to buy a Skyraider and an F-4.
Now, for my suggestions. Do keep new items in the barn until they are ready to go. That is the only way I know that you will be able to protect your investment. The proof of this is that, if you consider history, there is only one Zero on the market. Don't get too anxious if someone hears a rumor and fires a warning shot, like say a B-25. If you are far enough along, you can probably still safely maintain your position. I know that I do not buy announcements, I buy toys. Finally, carve out a niche for yourself. Your two competitors do, one wanting dominant position in the market, the other doing the most common and popular of an era. I don't know what that niche should be.
I know most people enjoy coming to the board here waiting to find out what is new...it's human nature to always look forward. Like you said, you can't pace the market out of itself and have your customers run out of money and interest. But please don't close up entirely in order to protect your company and still keep a loyal band of buyers.
I know I am not really one to be providing you with strategy, but I think you are on the right path.
You guys have to make the best model possible, for the price you believe is reasonable. I don't really play this game looking for a plane that is more detailed than another on the market. I am much more inclined to want planes that are different. I weigh each purchase equally. Is there something with this plane that is compelling me to buy it? I won't buy a BBI P-51, for instance, because its tires are more accurately colored than a 21st P-51. I will buy it if the paint scheme interests me. Likewise, I wouldn't buy 21st's new Big Beautiful Doll because I already have the first one, and it is of no interest to me that the new one is of a different airplane! Let's face it, in the 1:18 scale, there is no way possible to make a perfectly detailed copy of an original, and I think spending two days looking and comparing every little detail to a grainy sixty year old photo is not my idea of enjoyment. Now I certainly know that others do like to do that, but my practical side says that close enough is good enough. I like the idea of being able to buy a Skyraider and an F-4.
Now, for my suggestions. Do keep new items in the barn until they are ready to go. That is the only way I know that you will be able to protect your investment. The proof of this is that, if you consider history, there is only one Zero on the market. Don't get too anxious if someone hears a rumor and fires a warning shot, like say a B-25. If you are far enough along, you can probably still safely maintain your position. I know that I do not buy announcements, I buy toys. Finally, carve out a niche for yourself. Your two competitors do, one wanting dominant position in the market, the other doing the most common and popular of an era. I don't know what that niche should be.
I know most people enjoy coming to the board here waiting to find out what is new...it's human nature to always look forward. Like you said, you can't pace the market out of itself and have your customers run out of money and interest. But please don't close up entirely in order to protect your company and still keep a loyal band of buyers.
1/72 news?
Jason,
How about some 1/72 scale news? The two new Panzer III's look great, but what about the crusader and ther tanks?
Thanks,
Eric
How about some 1/72 scale news? The two new Panzer III's look great, but what about the crusader and ther tanks?
Thanks,
Eric
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Jolly Roger
- Officer - 2nd Lieutenant

- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:34 pm
here is somthing i think everyone wants.
Moving control surfaces that dont sag after a few times being moved!!!
all the planes - BBI have this problem.. make em tight and stuff.
front landing gear... let it swivel!!!!!! i dont know why no one else does this, i need to be able to manuver it on my 17ft Aircraft Carrier
thoose are my biggest concerns, 21st has the worst flap saggage, but my AT f86 has some horrible flaps as well, they just wanna flap around, or sag and it came that way out of the box, so these be what i say are important.
Moving control surfaces that dont sag after a few times being moved!!!
all the planes - BBI have this problem.. make em tight and stuff.
front landing gear... let it swivel!!!!!! i dont know why no one else does this, i need to be able to manuver it on my 17ft Aircraft Carrier
thoose are my biggest concerns, 21st has the worst flap saggage, but my AT f86 has some horrible flaps as well, they just wanna flap around, or sag and it came that way out of the box, so these be what i say are important.
Still withering away from the A-10 Hunger Striker.
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MightyMustang
- Officer - Lt. Colonel

- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:20 pm
- Location: Saint Paul, MN
BBI's control surfaces sag? Mine havent. 21st has flap saggage? Mine hasnt. This is news to me.Jolly Roger wrote:here is somthing i think everyone wants.
Moving control surfaces that dont sag after a few times being moved!!!
all the planes - BBI have this problem.. make em tight and stuff.
front landing gear... let it swivel!!!!!! i dont know why no one else does this, i need to be able to manuver it on my 17ft Aircraft Carrier
thoose are my biggest concerns, 21st has the worst flap saggage, but my AT f86 has some horrible flaps as well, they just wanna flap around, or sag and it came that way out of the box, so these be what i say are important.
"You dont know the power of the darkside, it is your destiny" Lord Vader.
